Introduction
In what follows, I want to be clear that I am only speaking for myself and not in any official capacity for either Christ Church or New St. Andrews College.
Many folks may be aware of the fact that Moscow, Idaho has seen its share of different leaders and teachers over the years who have come and gone, some of whom have moved in decidedly different directions than the core mission and vision we have at Christ Church and New St. Andrews College. One teacher was Peter Leithart who was a professor of theology at NSA for a number of years and was the founding pastor of Trinity Reformed Church. My wife and I were founding members of Trinity when it started in 2003, and later I served as a pastor alongside Peter for a number of years beginning in 2008. Through Peter, I and many others were introduced to James B. Jordan, and perhaps centrally his book Through New Eyes, an introduction to a typological reading of Scripture, and developing a biblical view of the world, aimed in a particularly sacramental and liturgical direction. The ministry of James Jordan is called Biblical Horizons (BH). There is a private BH email list serve that I was party to for around 14 years, and for many years there was an annual BH conference, which I spoke at one year. Jordan’s work and that annual conference has more recently been closely associated with the work of Theopolis Institute in Birmingham, Alabama where Peter Leithart now serves as president. In addition to the work of Jordan and Leithart, Jeff Meyers was a third teacher/pastor whose work on covenant renewal worship in the book The Lord’s Service has become very influential in these circles, including my own studies and ministry.
There are elements of all three men’s work that I remain extremely grateful for to this day and continue to believe are helpful and biblically sound. But over the last few years, I have had increasing misgivings, and I want to go on record now stating that I believe there are some serious weaknesses in what I would call the BH paradigm. I’m posting this publicly because of the public nature of my own involvement in some of these matters, and addressing public teaching publicly is sometimes good and necessary (Gal. 2:11).
When There’s No Nature to Regenerate
The central theological issue concerns the doctrine of regeneration. James Jordan wrote an exploratory essay a number of years ago entitled Thoughts on Sovereign Grace and Regeneration: Some Tentative Explorations. As the years went by, Jordan and others closely associated with him have largely adopted those thoughts on regeneration. The main thesis is that instead of regeneration being a permanent change of an individual’s nature in time and space, regeneration is viewed in more covenantal terms, defining it as an ongoing relationship with God beginning at baptism, wherein one wrestles with God (hopefully) to the end of life, but without a permanent change of nature in this life and such that some may ultimately reject this regeneration and fall away. The “change of nature” on this view is merely the change in relationship to God via covenant membership. This is because Jordan and proponents deny that there is such a thing as a “nature” that can be changed in itself. They would argue that our “nature” only consists in our relationships, and primarily how we relate to God.
While it is true that the word “regeneration” is used in covenantal ways in Scripture, the language of “new birth” and being “born again” are also clearly used in a more instantaneous, soteriological way, and with the notion of a permanent change of nature, going from children of wrath to children of grace, from the Adamic nature to a new nature in Christ, and that change being permanent and part of God’s guarantee of our perseverance to the end. Regeneration relates to generation, which is the question, “who is your father?” But the answer to that question is not merely a matter of who you are related to, or whose name is on the birth certificate. It is also fundamentally a matter of what kind of heart you have, what kind of tree you are, what you actually are in yourself.
It should be pointed out that everyone in this conversation is a Calvinist, and so even those who hold to the Jordan thesis hold that everyone who perseveres in wrestling with the Spirit does so because of the decretive will of God and His sovereign grace. But I have come to believe that this distinction has enormous downstream effects both theologically and pastorally. There is something extremely crucial for preaching and pastoral ministry about holding to the definitive state of a man before God. Either a man is regenerate or not, and those pigs who got baptized and went back to wallowing in the mire never were anything other than pigs, even though it will be worse for them (2 Pet. 2:21-22).
But this is not merely a theological or theoretical matter because as Douglas Wilson has pointed out, without a nature, we do not have an argument against those who want to say that boys can be girls or girls can be boys. The thing to notice here initially is the emphasis on relationship over nature that muddles definitions. In what follows, I am not arguing for a direct causation from this theological problem to all the others. Rather, I’m claiming that there’s something in the air, a number of related problems and weaknesses all in a cluster, and faithful men should take notice.
Leithart on the End of Protestantism
Peter Leithart’s End of Protestantism project a few years back was another unsettling development along similar lines. While the book (barely) managed to avoid the worst errors I feared, suffering primarily from a poor title, a subsequent editorial in Fox News under the same banner made it clear where this was heading, which is not Roman Catholicism for most (as some might fear), but a squishy sacramental-liturgical Protestant ecumenism, a warmed over Anglicanism that aims at the faithfulness of the African branch but ends up with the British and American compromises (more on that momentarily). The primary problem here being an overemphasis on external, sacramental-liturgical unity over true born again, Spirit-wrought unity in Christ. Meanwhile, my pastoral experience leading worship in my (previous) congregation that pretty much followed Jeff Meyer’s suggestions for covenant renewal worship to a tee was beginning to raise pastoral questions. I was seeing troubling signs in the congregation that some were interpreting the robes and collars and other liturgical forms as a sort of Anglicanism-lite and once again indications that extra-biblical, external forms were taking on far greater significance and importance than they ought to, and which naturally opened the door to varying lapses in personal holiness.
Peter Leithart on Revoice
The next shoe to drop was when it came to my attention this last Spring that Peter Leithart had blurbed Wesley Hill’s book Spiritual Friendship, part history of friendship in the church, but also part “Finding Love in the Church as a Celibate Gay Christian” (the subtitle). Wesley Hill writes:
“I needed to explore how my being gay might involve what a thoughtful friend of mine has called a special ‘genius for friendship.’ Genius doesn’t just mean intellectual aptitude or brilliance; it can equally refer to a talent, a knack, a particular flair for something, or a certain kind of practical wisdom, so that we say things like, ‘He’s a genius when it comes to baking cakes,’ or ‘She’s a tightrope-walking genius.’ Might there be, my friend asked, a way in which gay people have, whether by natural inclinations or through childhood trial and error or some combination of the two (among other factors), a sort of enviable insight into how to foster and enhance same-sex friendships? If so, part of this may be owing to the skills gay kids have to learn if they plan to survive middle school: skills of self-restraint and creative resolution when they develop a crush on their best friend, self-control in speech and action as they try to navigate such a tricky situation without cutting themselves off from relationships, and balance and delicacy in tending relationships even when they retain their potential for messiness.
Despite what you might conclude from cultural sound bites, being gay isn’t only, or even primarily, about what people choose to do in bed. Even for straight people, sexuality is broader and more mysteriously elusive than that. While it can’t be reduced simply to a generic impulse for relationships of any kind, which would render it synonymous with ‘relationality’ or ‘capacity for companionship,’ sexuality also shouldn’t be abbreviated as ‘whatever we do with our genitals.’
In my experience, at least, being gay colors everything about me, even though I’m celibate. It’s less a separable piece of my experience, like a shelf in my office, which is distinguishable from the other shelves, and more like the proverbial drop of ink in a glass of water: not identical with the water, but also not entirely distinct from it either. Being gay is, for me, as much a sensibility as anything else: a heightened sensitivity to and passion for same-sex beauty that helps determine the kind of conversations I have, which people I’m drawn to spend time with, what novels and poems and films I enjoy, the particular visual art I appreciate, and also, I think, the kind of friendships I pursue and try to strengthen. I don’t imagine I would have invested half as much effort in loving my male friends, and making sacrifices of time, energy, and even money on their behalf, if I weren’t gay. My sexuality, my basic erotic orientation to the world, is inescapably intertwined with how I go about finding and keeping friends.” (P. 80-81)
Endorsing Spiritual Friendship, Peter Leithart wrote, “Medieval monks expressed their love for one another with what to us is cringe-inducing intimacy, and not so long ago Christians still entered formal bonds of friendship by taking vows that sound like marriage vows. We don’t do that anymore, with our commitment to uncommitted freedom, our turnover habits, our sexualization of everything and everyone, and our resignation to loneliness. Wesley Hill’s very personal book is an elegant, theologically rich plea on behalf of the love of friendship that uncovers fresh ways to improvise on a lost Christian tradition of committed spiritual friendship.” Peter gives no caveats or warnings about what one may find in Hill’s book. For anyone struggling with homosexual temptation or sin, especially for anyone who has been familiar with Biblical Horizons, Peter Leithart, or Theopolis Institute, one could not be faulted for believing that Peter and Theopolis support Wesley Hill’s brand of addressing the challenge of being a “Celibate Gay Christian,” more recently popularized in the Revoice conferences.
Now I happen to know that Peter does not support or endorse the “Spiritual Friendship” project as a whole or the Revoice conference that has come to be closely aligned with it (Spiritual Friendship was published in 2015, and the first Revoice Conference was held in 2018). But the blog “Spiritual Friendship.org,” jointly founded by Hill has been open about these themes since its start in 2012. The Spiritual Friendship blog folks held a pre-conference at the first Revoice conference, and Wesley Hill has been one of the prominent speakers at Revoice. And I want to be clear that my concern is not that Peter endorsed a book by somebody associated with Revoice. My concern is that Peter endorsed a book that explicitly argues for the very same things as Revoice. I have heard reports that Peter is working on some sort of statement clarifying his views. But it has been months now since I urged Peter to do so, and therefore that sort of clarification is clearly not a matter of great urgency for him. So as it stands, Theopolis Institute and Peter Leithart are on the back of a book endorsing Hill’s suggested path to helping “a Celibate Gay Christian” find love in the Church and clearly not at all in a biblical way. Notice once again: the emphasis on relationships (“friendship”) while missing glaring moral problems.
Jeff Meyers & the Missouri Presbytery on Revoice
Finally, it came to my attention that the recent Missouri Presbytery study committee on Revoice was appointed by Jeff Meyers, the moderator of the presbytery at that time (he is no longer moderator). The make-up of the committee included a strong representation of those already committed to Revoice and similar projects. My point is not to accuse Jeff Meyers of supporting Revoice or similar movements. I very much suspect that he is not a fan.
My point is that Jeff Meyers is not seeing clearly. My point is that Peter Leithart is not seeing clearly. And the irony is deep and appalling since they would both point to the seminal book by their mentor James Jordan Through New Eyes as a cornerstone in their thinking and study and teaching on the Bible. But these “new eyes” are not working well. If your new eyes cannot see the plays being run on the church, your new eyes need newer eyes. If these new eyes have become instrumental in welcoming and normalizing homosexual identity in the church, even if completely unintentionally, those eyes need glasses. It’s no excuse to say that you didn’t see the ditch, the potholes, the bridge out over the river. The shepherds of the flock must have good eyes for guarding the flock otherwise they really are the blind leading the blind.
Checking Your New Eyes
The central thesis of Through New Eyes is that the Bible is written typologically, that God is the sovereign author of all of existence, and therefore all of existence means what He says it means. Therefore, rocks and stars and trees and bread and wine are not merely things, they are also symbols and types. They are signs that point beyond themselves to what God is doing in the world and in various ways they may carry or convey or communicate those meanings in Scripture, in history, and in our lives. When a bunch of these grammar level connections are made, reading the Bible covenantally from Genesis to Revelation demonstrates that many of these signs fill up with more and more meaning as they come to their fulfillment in Jesus and the New Covenant. And there’s a great deal of this that is just plain, vanilla Reformed theology (if somewhat neglected in recent decades).
Most Reformed theologians have made the connection between baptism and circumcision at least partially by typology. The New Testament writers say that the Flood was a type of baptism and so was the crossing of the Red Sea (1 Cor. 10, 1 Pet. 3). I still find this broad typological hermeneutic compelling, but something has gone terribly wrong when you can’t see the queer guy right in front of you. A couple of years ago, I wrote an article in which I stated my concern that many who would otherwise have no problem tracing the typology of robes or the sign of the cross or incense, could suddenly become strict grammatical-historical literalists when it came to a suggested typology of pink hair and gender confusion. The whole point of reading the Bible this way is to give us the ability to read the world rightly, but when typology is primarily about deep weird connections and liturgical minutiae, one begins to suspect that it’s more about entertainment and being “in the know” than Heaven and Hell and life and death exegesis of God’s holy word. Something has gone terribly wrong when the raison d’etre of your ministry is picking up on the nuances of typology, but you’re accidentally endorsing or inadvertently helping to protect men who really want to sodomize other men but can’t and so instead will cultivate life-long (celibate) intimate friendships with them, while remaining pastors and leaders in the church.
One of the ways you should test your new eyes is by checking how well they help you see. And there are some significant blind spots here. While I would be very grateful for a clarifying statement from Peter Leithart repudiating his endorsement of Wesley Hill’s book Spiritual Friendship, the fact that it has taken him this long indicates that he has a blind spot about the urgency of doing so. Even if Jeff Meyer’s appointment of the members of the Missouri Presbytery study committee was completely innocent, the fact that it has now been shown to have been a stacked committee should be cause for a public apology, especially given the report that was produced. But I doubt he sees that.
My Repentance: Federal Vision & BH
The first thing we should do when we realize that we haven’t been seeing things clearly is to own that fact. Then, after that, especially when we have been in positions of leadership, we should warn others.
So in the first instance, I want to publicly acknowledge that I have been heavily influenced by these men. I wrote a commentary on the book of Job, A Son for Glory, that is in a commentary series subtitled Through New Eyes. I don’t know of any glaring errors in that book at present, but I am issuing a surgeon general’s warning regarding its contents. Be aware that while I still hold many of the basic interpretations of that book, it may contain problems or weaknesses. Related, I have not yet had an opportunity to work my way through my blog archives, but I fully expect to find posts that were heavily influenced by my “Biblical Horizons” education and associations. This would also include taking various “Federal Vision” stances for granted.
While I still believe many of the critics of Federal Vision did not always understand what they were criticizing, I do now believe that there was a great deal of ambiguous and pastorally unhelpful and irresponsible speculative theology passed off under the heading “Federal Vision,” related to the Biblical Horizons tendency to do theology by free association rather than careful exegesis. To the extent that some of my friends were led into Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, wishy-washy Anglicanism, or worse, by my own irresponsible participation in that project or related speculations, my sincere apologies. While this hardly does justice to the problems and confusions caused, please consider this a retraction of my public and published work that has participated in the Biblical Horizons and Federal Vision muddle.
Closely related, looking back, I can see danger signs at various points that I did not heed, and some of my friends even warned me, and I dismissed those warnings. To those who saw the danger signs and tried to point them out, to those whom I dismissed, please forgive me.
To anticipate one possible objection, I would note that our church?s college ministry hosted Sam Allberry for an event entitled “Sexual Confusion: Who are you?” back in 2014. While I have expressed strong disagreement with Sam at points, Sam has remained one of the more biblically careful speakers/writers on homosexual temptation and has distanced himself from the leaders of Revoice, as evidenced by his willingness to sign the Nashville Statetement. But without speaking for anyone else, I think it is safe to say that had we known then what we know now about the entire lay of the land, there would have been more to discuss than we realized at the time. Nevertheless, I met Sam when he visited Moscow, and I have kept up an acquaintance here and there with him, and to his great credit he has remained a friend of ours, responding to questions and criticisms graciously, and occasionally sharing the material coming out of Moscow. All that to say, while we would likely do things a bit different today if we had it to do over, Sam is in a somewhat different category from most.
Some of my critics have sometimes urged me to admit when I was wrong and have expressed varying degrees of frustration with me for refusing to admit I was wrong, when I didn’t think I was. But here I am on record admitting I was wrong. And unfortunately, many will likely be upset with me for doing so, accusing me of being divisive or disrespectful or worse.
One other brief word to those who know me and Peter well and know our history together. It’s a terrible thing to need to write something like this, and it could be taken as vicious or backstabbing. But you should know that I have attempted to raise these concerns directly to him previously, and I have also sought to do so in respectful ways, always with gratitude for his kindness to me over the years. I do not bear Peter any ill will, and it is love for him and the truth the motivates this. I don’t really know the way forward from here, but I do not believe it serves anyone well to paper over these serious differences.
Conclusion
I have counseled others in the SBC and PCA that nothing short of a holy ruckus will save those institutions from the rot in their bones. They have stage 4 cancer, and they need the strongest chemo there is. But I would be remiss to counsel table turning, bridge burning, and rejecting all polite consensus building if I were not willing to do the same. I’m not a member of either of those denominations, but I believe my own associations have done their part in feeding the cancer in those denominations.
So I repent, and here I am calling my brothers in the BH world and those associated with BH in the CREC to recognize that something is wrong. I fully believe that there are salvageable elements of what we have been taught and studied over the last number of years. I still think that the way Jordan and Leithart analyze biblical texts is frequently very helpful and stimulating (e.g. Primeval Saints, A House for My Name, From Silence to Song). I continue worshipping weekly (and happily) in a congregation that uses a simplified covenant renewal form of worship, with no plans or inclinations to change. But despite those good things, we should not go on pretending that these are good eyes. These eyes are not as good as we thought, brothers. Let’s admit that we have been part of the problem, repent, and ask the Lord to give sight to our blind eyes. We need glasses. We need the Holy Spirit’s Lasik surgery. We need Jesus to spit on some dirt and rub it in our eyes.
I know I am not the first one or the only one to point out some of these weaknesses, but I know how hard it can be to admit it. I know the justifications, the excuses, the dismissals, the biblical-theological dodges and feints that we have practiced. I know what it can feel like to seem trapped. Maybe it finally feels like you’ve made it to a place of stability in your church, in your theological journey. Maybe you can imagine the disruption agreeing with this would cause with your friends, on your session, in your family. It can seem like I’m the troublemaker, like this sort of disruption is anything but helpful. But Jesus called us to take up our crosses and follow Him. He called us to love Him above all else, to be willing to lose friends and family for His sake. He says that if we say that we can see, we are actually blind, but if we know that we are blind, He will make us see.
“We all want progress. But progress means getting nearer to the place where you want to be. And if you have taken a wrong turning then to go forward does not get you any nearer. If you are on the wrong road progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road and in that case the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive man. There is nothing progressive about being pig-headed and refusing to admit a mistake. And I think if you look at the present state of the world it’s pretty plain that humanity has been making some big mistake. We’re on the wrong road. And if that is so we must go back. Going back is the quickest way on.” C.S. Lewis
Photo by Nonsap Visuals on Unsplash
Jeff Meyers says
Really? Putting a few men on the MO Pres Revoice investigation committee that were familiar with that organization is ordinarily called “balance.”
Doug H says
Jeff – Sounds like a good, godly and wise approach to the organization of the committee. Sort of like something Doug Wilson advocated a few years ago with Federal Vision and the PCA: https://dougwils.com/the-church/s16-theology/far-worse-than-a-stacked-study-committee.html
Well done, Jeff!
Toby says
There’s a huge difference between a theological debate over the nuances of doctrine and a study committee tasked with looking into a conference/pastor openly confessing that they really want to sodomize other men but can’t. Apples and oranges.
Jon Swerens says
Pastor Meyers, are you then saying that the Warhorn report is wrong? That report says five of the eight men on the committee have had a hand in creating or supporting Revoice, which is more than a couple or a few men and more than mere familiarity?
Archibald F. Edwards says
Ah, the cancer rears its ugly head. We’re going to chemo you to kingdom come, Jeff. You, and those you’ve empowered.
We’ve learned from PCUSA, from the Episcopalians, from the methodists. Don’t think we haven’t learned: the only way to avoid liberalisation, and to avoid the subsequent snuffing of our lampstands by the Lord Jesus, is to tear you people out like a mad surgeon, like the ugly metastases you are. Tear out the apostates, the heretics, the liberals—but especially, above all, tear out the orthodox-on-paper cowards.
This is a warning, Jeff. The orthodox are not blind and dumb. We see.
Toby says
Jeff, you still haven’t answered the claim that a full majority of the committee members were known Revoice sympathizers/supporters. That isn’t balance.
Jeff Meyers says
You have no clue what you are talking about. I’m out of here.
Jon Swerens says
That’s a troubling dismissal of my honest question from a pastor I respect.
Ron Dodson says
I get that it is daunting to preach of a wholly holy God who is, by human standards, weird and “other”. The answer to that is allegiance to the real, historic, biblical, human (and God) Jesus…and not some systematic fire insurance.
Fully dark stout for me, I guess. But I do love you guys. Seriously.
Charles Chambers says
Thank you Toby. I saw a FB post today from another recognize who was quoting James Jordan and who has been likewise unduly influenced by BH. It was an upsetting post to me. Tonight I am thankful after reading your piece on not seeing some essential truths/doctrine correctly through what we’ve assumed are “new eyes”.
Woelke says
Toby,
There’s an embarrassing lack of clarity in this post. Peter Leithart et al. might be guilty of the whole shebang, promoting every squishy revoiced study vision, but one couldn’t tell that from your post. If you want to actually discuss these issues, you owe it to your friends to be more explicit, more clear, and more specific. If you’re calling them to repentance and not simply trying to sling mud on their characters, you really ought to explain what you’re doing. You wouldn’t tell a four-year-old, “Stop being so bad!” without being specific. And if your purpose is instead to sling mud, at least get it wet first.
A specific example will help me avoid the same fate: you say that Leithart’s The End of Protestantism (EOP) is “unsettling,” “squishy,” and “barely” manages to avoid “the worst errors.” But what exactly is the problem? What are these “worst” errors? Why is it unsettling? What do you mean by squishy and how is it bad? It’s easy to call names, it’s hard to actually back up hysterical allegations. In the same paragraph, you say a related idea (CNW) was “beginning to raise pastoral questions.” What pastoral questions? Are pastoral questions bad? Why? This “opened the door to varying lapses in personal holiness.” Huh? Did someone read EOP and then start committing adultery? Cheating on his taxes? Wearing clerical robes for Halloween? Did EOP inspire converts to Roman Catholicism (if that even is a lapse in personal holiness)? If so, how? You just don’t give enough (any?) information. To be fair, you do say there’s an “overemphasis on external, sacramental-liturgical unity over true born again, Spirit-wrought unity in Christ.” But are you saying that EOP set these two ideas up as a dichotomy, or simply that the book discusses one more than the other? Is the book designed to cover both? Context matters. What kind of overemphasis are you speaking of? Is overemphasis automatically bad? Your post has an overemphasis on Leithart over Jeff Meyers, but it’s not clear that’s a problem. You leave so many questions wide-open.
I don’t point this out to get into a point-by-point discussion, though I’m not averse to it if that’s what you actually want. My point isn’t whether Leithart is right in EOP, or in book blurbs, or in having a different point of view on regeneration. My point is that you’ve simply thrown a lot of shade without actually making any arguments. You’ve driven by and thrown a bomb (“It raises pastoral questions, take that!”) and then driven away again, leaving bystanders confused and misled. (Most of your attacks on BH or the Federal Vision are equally limp, reminiscent of Douglas Wilson’s decision to disavow the Federal Vision without bothering to tell anyone what he was disavowing apart from the label.) You say these problems are related, but you don’t say how. Stating something is the case doesn’t make it so. Show your work.
Please don’t take this as an insistence that you agree with Leithart or Jordan. Disagree, publicly, and godspeed. But be fair about it. Be explicit. And, if you can stand it, admit that these topics might require grappling with some nuances.
By all means, repent of your past associations if you’ve sinned by them. Christians ought to confess errors and seek forgiveness. But don’t use repentance as a cloak to attack other people. It’s beneath you. But it is in keeping with how hell-bent you Muscovites have become on shooting at your friends.
Pax vobiscum,
Woelke
PS–Hi Moscow lurkers!
Toby says
Woelke, Thanks for the comment. I believe my post was sufficiently specific. The specific endorsement of Hill’s book and Meyer’s appointment of the Missouri committee are sufficient. And I’m happy to answer other specific questions. On your EOP questions, I clearly stated that it was the Fox article (not the book) that revealed the project, overemphasizing externals. Witness the title: “The Reformation Failed.” And to be clear, my public repentance was not for associations, but rather for my part in disseminating a pastorally reckless paradigm. I will only add that it seems ironic that you close your plea for specifics with a vague and ambiguous jab regarding “Muscovites” shooting at friends. I believe my article held vast quantities of specifics compared to that dart. Cheers, friend.
Nathan says
Hey Woelke,
What I am reading here is that the line between a personal apology and a rebuke of colleagues is unclear. It can make it appear like the rebuke is actually more important than the apology.
Just a thought,
Nathan
Woelke says
Nathan,
I appreciate the thought, but I’m not sure I get the point. Are you saying that perhaps Toby’s post is more set up as a personal apology and isn’t meant as a rebuke? That’s a fair point. Perhaps it didn’t need to be arranged as a laundry list of unsupported allegations?
Pax vobiscum,
Woelke
Nathan says
Sorry,
Yes, my comment wasn’t totally clear. The post had both elements of rebuke and apology and they got intertwined and confused. I am fine with both apologies and challenges, but here they seem to get confused here, and so the post comes off as an a mix of blame-shifting and unclear layers of attack.
Blessings,
Nathan
Woelke says
Toby,
Someone asks for proof and specifics, and you say, “I’m good”? I truly urge you to re-read your post with a critical eye. Have you been specific about the problems you’ve identified? Have you cited sources that actually support your allegations? Let’s make it real: If someone in your congregation is tempted by the evils of Theopolis, is she going to see its errors by reading your post? Your lack of specificity is actively harmful because it is all allegation and no correction. Your reply to my comment shows the same inclination, since you now suggest that Leithart (or is it BH?) has a “pastorally reckless paradigm” without identifying a single way that he (or it) does so. If this is all you have, it’s no wonder you’re blogging instead of filing charges.
Though you say you’re happy to answer specific questions, I asked more than a dozen that you didn’t answer. Why not show your work? Imagine if Athanasius had done the same when asked.
I don’t think my questions about EOP (project or book) were an unfair reading of your paragraph. In the context of speaking of EOP (the book), you write that the editorial “made it clear where this was heading.” What is “this” in that clause? It’s not the editorial, unless the clause means, “The editorial made it clear where the editorial was heading.” The natural reading of your sentence is that the editorial makes clear the end-goal of EOP (i.e., the project mentioned in the previous sentence). Perhaps you meant to complain only about the editorial and not about the book or the project, but your sentence is really, really unclear if that’s the case. And this lack of clarity is precisely what I’m saying is the problem.
And last: I cheerfully take your point on the irony of my “vague and ambiguous jab.” Fair enough. Here’s seven (ooh! typology!), leaving out the plethora of attacks on non-Reformed types and not including podcast episodes:
Sumpter “shoots at” the PCA: http://tobyjsumpter.com/that-pca-canoe/
Sumpter “shoots at” Thabiti Anyabwile: http://tobyjsumpter.com/how-thabitis-repentance-got-hijacked/
Sumpter “shoots at” Tim Keller: http://tobyjsumpter.com/nice-christianity-complimentarian-end-zone-dances/
Wilson “shoots at” Jordan: https://dougwils.com/the-church/s16-theology/a-catholic-evangelical.html
Wilson “shoots at” Leithart (to use one of dozens of examples): https://dougwils.com/the-church/rejoinder-peter-leithart.html
Wilson “shoots at” David Field: https://theopolisinstitute.com/conversations/a-crisis-not-a-conversation/
Wilson “shoots at” the PCA: https://dougwils.com/books-and-culture/s7-engaging-the-culture/pca-r-i-p-.html
Maybe I’m wrong to assume Muscovites shoot at your friends. Maybe none of these people are your friends. I suppose you may see them as your enemies. But we’re called to view them as Christian brothers and sisters. What about encouragement? What about building others up instead of tearing them down? What about working with other Christians, even through serious disagreements? What about constructive discussions?
Again, please don’t hear me saying that you need to agree with all these folks on every jot and tittle. I certainly don’t—I think I’ve been arguing with Peter Leithart longer than anybody. But when you have a post like this, full of strong words, you owe it to your brothers and sisters to show your work.
I appreciate your willingness to host my pushbacks on your site. As always, it’s a poor substitute for a lengthy in-person conversation with beer on the back deck.
Pax vobiscum,
Woelke
Toby says
Woelke,
In my article I explained the problems with JBJ’s regeneration thesis over the course of several paragraphs, concluding with Wilson’s (irrefutable I believe) article linking the nature stuff to transgenderism. That’s specific and clear. I cited a lengthy quotation from “Spiritual Friendship” and your dad’s endorsement of it. That was also very specific and clear. I also cited the claims made by the Warhorn guys that Jeff Meyers appointed a stacked committee. Ditto on specificity and clarity. I also outlined the inconsistency of many in the BH world to apply their typological reading to culture, with links for further reading. More clarity and specificity. You may disagree with me over whether I was clear or specific enough on some of the other matters (e.g. EOP project), but to your overarching question: yes, I was very specific about the matters that need addressing and why I am repenting of my part in the overarching paradigm/project. I’m grateful for some of the almost immediate (providentially) articles on the Revoice project on Theopolis, although I still wish your dad would address his endorsement of Spiritual Friendship.
I think all those articles you linked are great. And I commend them to everyone. I’m not aware of anything in any of them that is unfair or unChristian attacks on friends, as you allege. If there is anything specific in any one of them, please point that out. But good biblical friends rebuke, admonish, correct, and sometimes strongly disagree. There is nothing inherent in any of those things that implies “attacking” or “shooting” at friends in an ungodly way.
Christopher Schrock says
Woelke,
>> There’s an embarrassing lack of clarity in this post.
I disagree. I found the post clear and specific with respect to stated aim and scope. To claim otherwise, ironically, reinforces Toby’s point, problems with seeing clear things clearly. And from a good faith reading of the post, clearly Toby’s purpose is not to sling mud. I thought it was underhanded for you to imply so, particularly at the end where you accuse Toby that he is attacking people with churched up speech (“But don’t use repentance as a cloak to attack other people.”) In Toby’s defense, to state differences publicly is not tantamount to a personal attack.
>> admit that these topics might require grappling with some nuances.
Regarding regeneration and the new birth . . . Really? One may need to do some basic stretching exercises or calisthenics with some nuarnces, but nothing that comes close to being characterized as grappling. Sorry, that is too far. Again, to double down with that suggestion IMHO reinforces Toby’s point.
Toby,
Thanks for sharing this.
>> I don’t really know the way forward from here, but I do not believe it serves anyone well to paper over these serious differences.
I will leave suggestions for the way forward to others, but if Leithart, Meyers, etc., respond at length, I trust you all will walk out the details accordingly.
Woelke says
Christopher,
Fair enough that you found the post clear and specific. And it’s certainly possible that I’m having my own troubles seeing clearly. It wouldn’t be the first time! If that’s the case, perhaps adding more specifics would help me come around? I’d also be curious to know whether you thought that the post answered the questions I raised above.
Agreed completely that to state differences publicly is not a personal attack. I’m not sure that Toby’s post counts as a personal attack. If he claimed that Leithart was fat or an intellectual rube—ad hominem, in other words—that would be a personal attack. He didn’t do that. But a series of intellectual allegations is still slinging mud if they aren’t true. And my point to Toby is that he doesn’t give enough information to allow his readers to tell whether his claims are true or not.
I’m not sure your point about regeneration and the new birth. Are you saying there’s no nuance involved there? Or are you saying that we shouldn’t need to grapple with it?
Pax vobiscum,
Woelke
Christopher Schrock says
Woelke,
Appreciate your reply. Does the following help? I found Toby’s post clear and specific relative to his purpose/scope: (1) acknowledging personal previous faults and (2) a warning and invitation for others to rethink typological free association. It is a mea culpa with a question. In summary Toby is saying, “Yep, typology is cool . . . but, hey guys! what if we are all wrong about this hermeneutic? What if it isn’t as good as we all thought? It doesn’t seem to be holding up to the test of time, or under pressure?” And relative to that twofold purpose, here is my point, I thought Toby did provide enough information/examples for his readers to ponder these things. That is why I told Toby thanks for sharing. It is worth the pause to take note and consider.
>> Are you saying there’s no nuance involved there? Or are you saying that we shouldn’t need to grapple with it?
I believe there are nuances. We should pour ourselves a glass of wine and turn over doctrine in our heads accordingly. But that is old fashioned theological calisthenics. Grappling sure sounds like something else, like a choke hold. Sorry, that is too far if one is Reformed, e.g., JBJ’s thesis doesn’t just try to choke hold and nuke regeneration, in the process it subsequently aborts several classic Reformed *key* distinctions, e.g., internal and external call, non-effectual calling and effectual calling, non-saving preparatory grace and saving grace, etc.
Stephen Baker says
Thank you, Toby.
Stephen says
As a congregant of the church you stopped pastoring, it would be helpful to me and my family to know what kinds of lapses in personal holiness were naturally allowed by an overemphasis on the externals of worship so that I could work to avoid them in the future. Let me know, thanks!
Toby says
Sure, Stephen, would be glad to. When’s a good time for us to meet?
Isaiah Taylor says
Thank you for your example, pastor.
Jacob says
I believe in Once TNE, always TNE and Perseverance of TNE.
Frank Brito says
“It should be pointed out that everyone in this conversation is a Calvinist”
So you can completely redefine the meaning of regeneration, justification, perseverance, etc. but you are still a “Calvinist” because you believe in some way in “the decretive will of God”? No, these guys are not Calvinists.
Justin says
To be clear, you saw these “personal holiness” problems as a pastor at a local congregation and instead of doing something about it (like faithfully pastoring said people out of their errors) you left. Then, a few months later, you publicly put said former congregation on blast for their problems on an internet blog post? Conversations on theological differences between theologians is one thing, but that little nugget about your former congregation was something else entirely.
Toby says
Justin,
No, I addressed those personal holiness problems for many years as their pastor and together with the elders. Then when I parted ways with my former congregation, I did so noting those concerns generally in public and more specifically to the elders in private, and urging them to continue to address those concerns. And I merely noted the presence of those concerns in this recent article. Blessings,
Justin says
At least two of your former congregants are hearing this for the first time. Also, even if you had spoken about it to individuals at the time, how is it in any way appropriate to write about it now in this public fashion? Shouldn’t that be the kind of thing you keep between you and whichever congregant you are discussing with? Being jealous for their reputation is a good thing. Public potshots aren’t.
Toby says
Justin, I’ve been writing and preaching about these matters publicly for years. If anyone’s hearing this for the first time, they’ve been asleep. It’s always appropriate to warn people about the dangers of putting the wrong kind of emphasis on externals. No potshots at all, just a simple matter of fact and public record.
Douglas S says
The Leithart/BH road has its appeal but I think full fledged Anglicanism is the real end of that path. And honest Anglicanism leads to Roman Catholicism. At least, I count Chesterton to have been an honest thinker. To me, the real choice has always been between Rome and a stripped down, but not fruitless, Reformed faith. I just don’t think there’s a middle ground that can be sustained without hidden compromises and contradicting viewpoints, and your blog post seems to confirm my suspicion.
Timothy J. Hammons says
Toby,
Thank you for your humility in dealing with this issue. That is refreshing and I wish others would operate in the spirit of humility as well. It’s encouraging to see you (and others) realize they have been wrong in the past. If my blog still had the theological posts I wrote 15 years ago, I would be doing the same.
Blessings Brother
Toby says
Thanks, Timothy.